Comments on: Episode 22: Contrasting Mormon Doctrine with Church Policy http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/ Tuna Casserole for the Ears Thu, 14 Jul 2011 05:49:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: john http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-203 john Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:18:21 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-203 An interesting topic on "By Common Consent". It deals again with activity rates. I was startled by the stats. What do we do to help? The comments are interesting too. http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/ An interesting topic on “By Common Consent”. It deals again with activity rates. I was startled by the stats. What do we do to help? The comments are interesting too.

http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/04/where-have-all-the-young-women-gone/

]]> By: Brother Troy http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-191 Brother Troy Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:01:06 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-191 Just wanted to point out some excellent material I found recently on the topic of "What Is Mormon Doctrine." This is a great article written by Robert L. Millet, Professor of Religious Understanding and former dean of Religious Education at BYU. This is one of the most clear and concise overviews of what makes up LDS doctrine that I have ever heard: http://www.lds.org/institutes/attachment/display/1,18728,91079,00.pdf Enjoy. Just wanted to point out some excellent material I found recently on the topic of “What Is Mormon Doctrine.” This is a great article written by Robert L. Millet, Professor of Religious Understanding and former dean of Religious Education at BYU. This is one of the most clear and concise overviews of what makes up LDS doctrine that I have ever heard:

http://www.lds.org/institutes/attachment/display/1,18728,91079,00.pdf

Enjoy.

]]> By: john http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-187 john Sat, 22 Mar 2008 19:06:22 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-187 I found this on John Dehlins site. Great visuals of church growth. http://mormonstories.org/?p=252 I found this on John Dehlins site. Great visuals of church growth.

http://mormonstories.org/?p=252

]]> By: Dan B http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-186 Dan B Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:15:13 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-186 Scott and John, thanks for clearing up that point about the "article" regarding retention. I also serve in a bishopric, and the initial comment made me think, "where have I been?". The fact is, there will always be information that is used by sad individuals to attack and accuse the Church. That will never change. We must remember that the Church (i.e. the body of individuals who comprise it) is not perfect, because none of us are perfect. Our faith cannot be in the Church. Our faith must be in Christ and His perfect Gospel. The Church is the entity established by Him (yet comprised of fallible individuals) to spread and administer His Gospel throughout the world. We must all remember that the strength of our faith in Christ and His Gospel is primarily dependent upon the witnessing power of the Holy Spirit. If we don't have the companionship of the Spirit in our lives, any of us can falter in our faith. And on the topic of members being on the rolls of the Church until age 110. Sounds like we're back to the "Mormon Myths" episode. That is one lazy membership clerk. Get that ward system cleaned up. I love this podcast (and the resulting discussion). Scott and John, thanks for clearing up that point about the “article” regarding retention. I also serve in a bishopric, and the initial comment made me think, “where have I been?”. The fact is, there will always be information that is used by sad individuals to attack and accuse the Church. That will never change. We must remember that the Church (i.e. the body of individuals who comprise it) is not perfect, because none of us are perfect. Our faith cannot be in the Church. Our faith must be in Christ and His perfect Gospel. The Church is the entity established by Him (yet comprised of fallible individuals) to spread and administer His Gospel throughout the world. We must all remember that the strength of our faith in Christ and His Gospel is primarily dependent upon the witnessing power of the Holy Spirit. If we don’t have the companionship of the Spirit in our lives, any of us can falter in our faith.

And on the topic of members being on the rolls of the Church until age 110. Sounds like we’re back to the “Mormon Myths” episode. That is one lazy membership clerk. Get that ward system cleaned up.

I love this podcast (and the resulting discussion).

]]> By: john http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-179 john Sat, 01 Mar 2008 15:25:37 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-179 I spoke to my father on this issue. Actually it was the Bishop that raised the issue of the internet as the problem. After researching it a bit I found that John Dehlin addressed this on his podcast. I talked to a couple of missionaries in my area and they confirmed my point. They said that potential converts were seeing them out the door and then going to the internet only to discover that anti and ex Mormon sites were full of info that caused them to send the missionaries packing. I hope that the Church will clarify its past and thus disarm the sites that already provide somewhat accurate info on Church history. A good start may be for Missionaries and the general church public read Rough Stone Rolling. I spoke to my father on this issue. Actually it was the Bishop that raised the issue of the internet as the problem. After researching it a bit I found that John Dehlin addressed this on his podcast. I talked to a couple of missionaries in my area and they confirmed my point. They said that potential converts were seeing them out the door and then going to the internet only to discover that anti and ex Mormon sites were full of info that caused them to send the missionaries packing. I hope that the Church will clarify its past and thus disarm the sites that already provide somewhat accurate info on Church history. A good start may be for Missionaries and the general church public read Rough Stone Rolling.

]]> By: Scott Gerlach http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-177 Scott Gerlach Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:28:46 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-177 That's odd. I serve in our ward's bishopric, and we didn't receive any directives regarding how a knowledge of early church history was causing retention issues. Was this only sent to Utah Mormons (just kidding!) We have been reminded of the importance of making sure that new converts have a friend, a responsibility, and nourishment with the good word of God, but that makes sense and is completely in harmony with past teachings. The MLS system allows us to record the death of members, and that is transmitted and recorded at Church headquarters, causing the record to be removed from MLS. If we're retaining member records until the 110th birthday, you might ask the membership clerk to clean up your local MLS. You never know.... That’s odd. I serve in our ward’s bishopric, and we didn’t receive any directives regarding how a knowledge of early church history was causing retention issues. Was this only sent to Utah Mormons (just kidding!)

We have been reminded of the importance of making sure that new converts have a friend, a responsibility, and nourishment with the good word of God, but that makes sense and is completely in harmony with past teachings.

The MLS system allows us to record the death of members, and that is transmitted and recorded at Church headquarters, causing the record to be removed from MLS. If we’re retaining member records until the 110th birthday, you might ask the membership clerk to clean up your local MLS. You never know….

]]> By: john http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-167 john Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:17:36 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-167 Not to be contentious on the issue but the two articles cited in the above comments don't take into account the vast number of inactive or former Mormons. The church keeps people on the roles as members until they would have or have reached 110 years old. I don't want to come across as contrarian but my point was to bust the myth that the church is the fastest growing church in the world. My Father attended bishopric meeting a few months ago and a directive from the First Presidency to Bishops and others in authority was read. It plainly stated that retention rates were alarmingly low and that the church was reevaluating ways to keep people in. The main problem, the internet. They said that information about church history and early doctrine was too easy to attain. I think this is one reason Rough Stone Rolling caused no problems in terms of Bushman's membership whereas D. Michael Quinn’s books got him excommunicated. The Church is trying to get the embarrassing stuff out of the way and get on to a more "correlated" and mainstream doctrine. Not to be contentious on the issue but the two articles cited in the above comments don’t take into account the vast number of inactive or former Mormons. The church keeps people on the roles as members until they would have or have reached 110 years old. I don’t want to come across as contrarian but my point was to bust the myth that the church is the fastest growing church in the world. My Father attended bishopric meeting a few months ago and a directive from the First Presidency to Bishops and others in authority was read. It plainly stated that retention rates were alarmingly low and that the church was reevaluating ways to keep people in. The main problem, the internet. They said that information about church history and early doctrine was too easy to attain. I think this is one reason Rough Stone Rolling caused no problems in terms of Bushman’s membership whereas D. Michael Quinn’s books got him excommunicated. The Church is trying to get the embarrassing stuff out of the way and get on to a more “correlated” and mainstream doctrine.

]]> By: Jay http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-166 Jay Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:37:03 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-166 Thought you brethren might like to know that the church is still growing. CHURCH CONTINUES STEADY GROWTH, NATIONAL COUNCIL OF CHURCHES SAYS See http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/church-continues-steady-growth-national-council-of-churches-says Link Thought you brethren might like to know that the church is still growing.

CHURCH CONTINUES STEADY GROWTH, NATIONAL COUNCIL OF CHURCHES SAYS

See http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/church-continues-steady-growth-national-council-of-churches-says

Link

]]> By: Sean in Chicago http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-165 Sean in Chicago Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:04:25 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-165 Why the tradition of having the longest serving Apostle become the next President? Although this is what has happened, it only happens after much prayer by all of the Apostles. If you believe that they receive inspiration as to who should be the next President then they will ask "Should X be the next President?" and until they get a confirmation they do not all move forward. If you believe they get revelation, if that is not the person they will not get the confirmation to go forward. Just because that is the trend up to now it does not have to always be. Why the tradition of having the longest serving Apostle become the next President?

Although this is what has happened, it only happens after much prayer by all of the Apostles. If you believe that they receive inspiration as to who should be the next President then they will ask “Should X be the next President?” and until they get a confirmation they do not all move forward. If you believe they get revelation, if that is not the person they will not get the confirmation to go forward. Just because that is the trend up to now it does not have to always be.

]]> By: Sean in Chicago http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-164 Sean in Chicago Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:48:48 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-164 Much to Mitchell's delight J. Golden Kimball was a democrat! Back in the day he attended the Utah Republican Party Convention and Reed Smoot (a big Republican) saw him in the congregation and invited him to say the opening prayer. "No thanks, Reed" said J. Golden, "I would just as soon not have the Lord know I was here!" Much to Mitchell’s delight J. Golden Kimball was a democrat!

Back in the day he attended the Utah Republican Party Convention and Reed Smoot (a big Republican) saw him in the congregation and invited him to say the opening prayer. “No thanks, Reed” said J. Golden, “I would just as soon not have the Lord know I was here!”

]]> By: Sean in Chicago http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-163 Sean in Chicago Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:19:19 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-163 Am I the only person who finds the Mikarose background music reminiscent of late night Cinemax fare that stars Shannon Tweed? (At least from what I have heard!) Am I the only person who finds the Mikarose background music reminiscent of late night Cinemax fare that stars Shannon Tweed? (At least from what I have heard!)

]]> By: Sean in Chicago http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-162 Sean in Chicago Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:16:16 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-162 If activity is required to determine counting membership then the Catholic church is not the largest Christian church except on Christmas and Easter! If activity is required to determine counting membership then the Catholic church is not the largest Christian church except on Christmas and Easter!

]]> By: Mike Kingsley http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-161 Mike Kingsley Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:07:07 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-161 I don't remember what episode you were talking about this, but here are the latest stats on the growth of the church (2nd in the nation) and the size of the church is forth in the nation. http://www.ldswebguy.com/2008/02/21/fastest-growing-churches-in-america/ I don’t remember what episode you were talking about this, but here are the latest stats on the growth of the church (2nd in the nation) and the size of the church is forth in the nation.

http://www.ldswebguy.com/2008/02/21/fastest-growing-churches-in-america/

]]> By: Ryan http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-159 Ryan Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:56:46 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-159 Your new sponsor should probably spell her business name on the audio podcast. I had no idea what she was saying until I came to the website. Your new sponsor should probably spell her business name on the audio podcast. I had no idea what she was saying until I came to the website.

]]> By: Scott Gerlach http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-158 Scott Gerlach Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:27:30 +0000 http://www.mormonpotluck.com/2008/02/19/episode-22-constrasting-mormon-doctrine-with-church-policy/#comment-158 Concerning why "once a bishop, always a bishop.": A bishop is ordained to the priesthood office of bishop. As this is an ordination, he isn't released from that office at the end of his administrative term. The ordination remains in effect, but is no longer in an active status. This is similar to the office of patriarch, which is also a lifetime ordination that may not necessarily always be active. Information on priesthood offices was found on the last page of Section 5, Book 1 of the Handbook of Instructions. See also D&C 72:9 (bishop ordained to office); D&c 41:9 (Edward Partridge ordained a bishop); D&C 68:19. The same does not hold true for presidents of various quorums. For instance, a stake president is set apart as president of the stake and its high priests group, but his ordination is still to the office of high priest. A bishop's highest office is that of high priest, since that is a Melchizedek Priesthood office, but he is still always a bishop. Good discussion, guys. I listen to the podcast while working my night job. Now, if I could just figure out a way to take better notes while working..... Concerning why “once a bishop, always a bishop.”:

A bishop is ordained to the priesthood office of bishop. As this is an ordination, he isn’t released from that office at the end of his administrative term. The ordination remains in effect, but is no longer in an active status. This is similar to the office of patriarch, which is also a lifetime ordination that may not necessarily always be active.

Information on priesthood offices was found on the last page of Section 5, Book 1 of the Handbook of Instructions. See also D&C 72:9 (bishop ordained to office); D&c 41:9 (Edward Partridge ordained a bishop); D&C 68:19.

The same does not hold true for presidents of various quorums. For instance, a stake president is set apart as president of the stake and its high priests group, but his ordination is still to the office of high priest. A bishop’s highest office is that of high priest, since that is a Melchizedek Priesthood office, but he is still always a bishop.

Good discussion, guys. I listen to the podcast while working my night job. Now, if I could just figure out a way to take better notes while working…..

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